Welcome to Interviews for Resistance. Since election night 2016, the streets of the United States have rung with resistance. People all over the country have woken up with the conviction that they must do something to fight inequality in all its forms. But many are wondering what it is they can do. In this series, we’ll be talking with experienced organizers, troublemakers, and thinkers who have been doing the hard work of fighting for a long time. They’ll be sharing their insights on what works, what doesn’t, and what has changed, and what is still the same.
The eyes of the country turned to Charlottesville, Virginia this weekend when a so-called “Unite the Right” rally turned deadly after a white nationalist plowed his car into a crowd of people, injuring nineteen and killing Heather Heyer, 32, an activist and counter-protester. But organizers in Charlottesville have been fighting white nationalism for a while. Lisa Woolfork of Charlottesville Black Lives Matter shares some background on the community’s response to its “summer of hate,” connects the dots between the fights over Confederate monuments to violent white supremacy, and tells us about what she saw on the ground.
Lisa Woolfork: I’m Lisa Woolfork of Black Lives Matter Charlottesville.
Sarah Jaffe: How are you holding up?
LW: No black woman, like myself, would have been wandering around anywhere down here by herself yesterday. So, that is a big shift.
SJ: So the last time there was a white supremacist rally in Charlottesville was not that long ago.
LW: You know, there has been one [nearly] every single month since May. I think that is important. To me it is a type of escalation on the part of the “alt-right.” We had that torch rally around the Lee statue. I think in May they had an event. . . . In July, of course, the Klan. Then, August, it is this one. We have started calling this the Summer of Hate. We are trying to say, “What was the last white supremacist rally we had here? Was that the May one? With the handful of Klansmen?” Yes, it has been quite a bit.
SJ: This one was obviously a bit of an escalation for them, but tell me how your day went yesterday? What was going on where you were?
LW: I began the day at the First Baptist Church on Main Street. It is an historic African American church that did a service to galvanize people to come out and stand up for their community. There were wonderful messages given there. Reverend Traci Blackmon from the United Church of Christ, she spoke. Cornel West, who is a well-known activist, he spoke. There were song selections. The service was called a sunrise service and that began at 6 a.m. Then, we walked over to the Jefferson School and a group of us proceeded from there to McGuffey Park.
At McGuffey Park, there was programming. There was a gigantic live theatre puppet show with a gigantic puppet of Sally Hemings that was like fifteen feet tall and other props to tell the story about Charlottesville and the march. That was by a wonderful team of very creative activist artists. It is a community called Charis Community. Grace Aheron put that together. That is just an example of basically togetherness. The “alt-right” had come here to threaten the largest gathering of hate that they had ever put together at least since the 1960s. That is what some of the people had been saying, that this was a very powerful gathering. I was very gratified and encouraged to see that so many in the community, as well as visitors and people from other allied organizations and unaffiliated individuals, people who had no connection to Charlottesville and weren’t members of any kind of organization. They just wanted to come out and stand on the side of justice. I find that very encouraging.
I helped this one woman, she must have been in her 80s, walk down a very steep slope. She was kind of struggling by herself. I just walked over and put my hand out so she could have balance. To me, that seemed like a great metaphor for the day. How do we help one another? How do neighbors, people who come together by common cause in the face of hatred and intolerance and promised abuse and vitriol? This was a very powerful and encouraging part of the day.
As well as seeing the Nazis and the “alt-right” retreat from Emancipation Park after their event was declared an unlawful assembly. That was quite a parade of hate. As they were leaving the area, they threw flares, they spit on people. There were several altercations of shouting matches and shoving matches. But still, it was a very powerful display of how love conquers hate. To stand there shoulder to shoulder to shoulder with neighbors, with colleagues from my department in English, with other faculty from around the university that I have seen a few of, from people in my own organization representing Black Lives Matter Charlottesville, which is a very small and new group, has since developed allied connections.
These were all examples of how the community wants to stand together against the threat and the promise of racist violence. Something that I thought was, again, very heartening was that too often people want to believe that symbolic hatred and symbolic racism has no real world consequence, that if we are to maintain symbols of white supremacy, those are completely devoid from the practices of white supremacy. That is false.
SJ: That is a really good point. Obviously, these people were drawn to Charlottesville and are having this massive rally in Charlottesville not because Charlottesville is uniquely welcoming to white supremacists. You all clearly proved you are not, but because the symbols there are meaningful to them.
LW: Yes, absolutely. One thing that I like to impress upon is that I think it is very important to retain attention on the Confederate monument. Of course, many people are turning to Louisiana and New Orleans as an example of a mayor who decided to step up and say, “No more. These are relics of a racist past and I want us to build a better future as a city. We do not need these any longer. They have outlived their usefulness.” Charlottesville has not done that. They have not done a complete process of reckoning. There was a commission that worked hard to uncover lots of very interesting information about Charlottesville’s unique southern history, but the recommendation that they made—there were two recommendations. One was to remove the statue and the other was to re-contextualize them in place.[*]
I have always been against the re-contextualization argument, because I don’t believe that you can make a huge monument to the Confederacy mean anything other than a monument to the Confederacy. What I find really compelling is that when the Monument Fund sued the city in court when the city council voted to remove the statues. Now, mind you, they voted to move them from one place to another. Then, they had a later amendment where they would move the statues outside of the city. They didn’t want them anymore.[**] The Monument Fund said that one of their arguments in court was that if the statues were to be moved, it would do them irreparable harm. I really think that we need to concentrate on that claim.
What does it mean that someone’s personal identity is bound up in a racist confederate monument, a monument to white supremacy? For me, the argument about re-contextualization has already been made. I think the best and most honest context for these monuments is white supremacy. Nothing says what these monuments really mean like a thousand white supremacists coming to defend them.
SJ: Speaking of the symbols, there was the controversy about them wanting to have their rally in this particular park that had just been recently renamed, having been named for Robert E. Lee, right?
LW: Yes, that is right. One of the recommendations that the blue ribbon commission made was that the two parks that have Confederate monuments in them be renamed. We have a Robert E. Lee statue and that is in Lee Park. Then, there is a Stonewall Jackson statue and that was always called Jackson Park.
What does it mean that someone’s personal identity is bound up in a racist confederate monument, a monument to white supremacy?
So, they changed Jackson Park to Justice Park and they changed Lee Park to Emancipation Park. To the city, that was a name change that they approved. They agreed to do that recommendation. That has already taken effect. So, now local media and places throughout the city documentation refer to these parks now as Emancipation and Justice [parks] rather than Lee and Jackson [parks].
SJ: So, the white supremacists had complained and sued over wanting to be able to have their rally in this particular park, even though the city had ruled that they could not.
LW: Yes. They did. They were helped by the Rutherford Institute, which I believe concentrates on free speech issues and constitutional issues here in Virginia. And, they were also aided by the ACLU Virginia chapter. Both of which turned out to be representing them in a legal capacity. The judge, not the city, the judge ultimately ruled that they could hold their rally in Emancipation Park. Some of the legal issues . . . I don’t want to get too much into them, but it was around heckler’s veto and not wanting a heckler’s veto to change anybody’s unpopular views. The judge just ruled and sided with the “alt-right,” with the white supremacists, with the Nazis, with the white nationalists.
SJ: At whatever point that their gathering was ruled unlawful and they were pushed out of the park, tell us what happened because that seemed to be when the real violence broke loose.
LW: I would say that the real violence was allowing these confederate monuments to remain in the center of our city as a paean or a testament or an endorsement of not just nineteenth century white supremacy, but twenty-first century endorsement or tolerance of white supremacy. I think that is something that I would certainly emphasize. There are so many ways to think about and define violence.
But, yes, from what I was able to see from where I was standing was when they had their walk of shame from Emancipation Park to McIntire Park, which is a park that is [about] a mile or a mile and a half aways from their original location. There were a lot of scuffles. There was a lot of pushing. Again, they would throw smoke flares at the counter protestors or counter demonstrators and the counter demonstrators would kick them back. There was yelling. There was a lot that was certainly at work in that moment. It was quite chaotic and yet heartening because my personal feeling at the time was that Charlottesville had come out and had drawn other likeminded people of good conscience to aid in combatting white supremacy and fascism and white nationalism.
That we had worked to reclaim in some small part that promise that America makes to all of us and that is the promise of equity, the promise that the Constitution shouldn’t be used as a battering ram, it shouldn’t be used as a weapon to deprive other people of rights. That was pretty heartening.
SJ: Let’s go back a little bit and talk about the organizing leading up to this. Like you said, there have been all of these rallies. There have been new groups forming and organizing going on on the ground for a while now to counter this. Tell people about what has been happening.
LW: The way that we have been working is in a coalition basis. We believe that we are stronger together than separate. There has been an umbrella of groups working as an organizing network to best utilize a variety of resources. That is something that has been very powerful. Groups like Congregate, which is a collection of different faith organizations and pastors, ministers, rabbis from a variety of different faith traditions. You have the group SURJ, Showing Up for Racial Justice. You have Black Lives Matter Charlottesville as another example and just one of a constellation of groups that are trying to mobilize our community for the greater good.
SJ: Particularly coming into this rally, what was the plan that folks had for dealing with this day? You talked about the sunrise service, the clergy, and the day of programming, but tell us a little bit more about how you planned to respond to this?
LW: One of the strengths of coalition-based activism is that it allows for a variety of approaches. Unlike the Klan rally, which was much more focused on a particular single place and time—I was involved in different seminars and symposia surrounding that, as well as some activism on the ground—this was much more dispersed. We understood that this was not meant to be a one and done type gathering for the “alt-right.”
The real violence was allowing these confederate monuments to remain in the center of our city.
It was meant to be basically a weekend party where they would come in on Friday and then they leave on Sunday. They would need much more infrastructure in order to work.
Our goal was to help pull the community to respond to the larger, more capacious threat of the “alt-right” and the white supremacists, neo-Nazis, nationalists were representing and threatening to bring forward. I think we were able to do that. We were able to bring together a variety of people, and several groups issued individual calls. The clergy, for example, had a really wonderful one calling on, in particular, white people of faith, white ministers, white clergy to come and join in taking a stand against not just explicit violent racism but also the subtle institutional racism that their own institutions had created and cultivated over time. It was I think a really powerful soul searching on the part of the clergy, for example.
Charlottesville BLM also issued a call where we invited people who wanted to come and stand with us and to challenge white supremacy, as well as some of the other issues that we are dealing with in our cities, which include things like the disproportionate nature of stop and frisk in Charlottesville where African Americans constitute about eighty percent of the stops and frisks even though we comprise less than nineteen percent of the community. It is not just the statues, but we can see a very clear connection between symbolic racism and institutional racism.
SJ: Going forward . . . you said you were on your way to a vigil. Tell me, what is next? What are people planning going forward from this weekend?
LW: One of the things about the coalition is not everybody knows what everyone is doing. But, as a coalition, our goal is to continue in the vein in which we have started. That is helping to pull people to come forward and to join and stand in community against these types of aggressive, dangerous, menacing, racist practices, and symbols. I know, particularly, that Charlottesville Black Lives Matter is interested in talking more about the Confederate statues and how these monuments should be removed and how the city council should work hard to fight in court against the legal challenges that we might face as the court case to remove the monuments continues to go through the system.
We want the city council to basically care as much about the lives of citizens as they did about preserving the rights of the “alt-right” when they allowed their permit to go through. We want the city to be committed to questions of racial justice and to appreciate that in the age in which we are living racist rhetoric is not just talk. Racist rhetoric produces racist actions. Racist statues are not just art. Symbolic racism is rooted in actual racist actions.
SJ: How can people keep up with you and with Charlottesville BLM?
Interviews for Resistance is a project of Sarah Jaffe, with assistance from Laura Feuillebois and support from the Nation Institute. It is also available as a podcast on iTunes. Not to be reprinted without permission.
[*] The Blue Ribbon Commission on Race, Memorials, and Public Spaces issued a report to the Charlottesville City Council in December 2016, recommending the statues of Robert E. Lee and Thomas “Stonewall” Jackson either be relocated and recontextualized in McIntire Park or that they be recontextualized in their current place.
[**] On February 6, 2017, the Charlottesville City Council voted to remove the statue of Robert E. Lee from the park. In March, the Monument Fund, the Sons of Confederate Veterans and about a dozen private citizens filed a lawsuit against the city, alleging the city violated a state law that protects war memorials. In April, the City Council voted to sell the statue; however, the city remains embroiled in the lawsuit, and the statue remains in place.